“We’re trying to avoid sounding like a conventional guitar band… Our goal has always been to expand what guitars can do”: Idles’ radical guitar duo dissect their “violent, dark tones” and explain why modeling is “wack”

Rising from the Bristol post-punk scene with 2017’s Brutalism, Idles momentarily seemed like route-one firebrands, taking on toxic masculinity, a crumbling NHS and the gamed class system over chippy beats and jawbreaker riffs. 

But if nobody expected the broadened horizons of 2021’s Crawler – a fourth album that saw frontman Joe Talbot stop rabble-rousing to actually sing, while the band pinballed between glam, soul and brooding electronica – then this year’s Tangk is an even bolder leap, putting acres of distance between Idles and their noisenik roots.

That the band now sound capable of anything is largely down to the partnership between Mark Bowen and Lee Kiernan: two guitarists who reject anything that’s even on nodding terms with cliché. 

Their manifesto, as set out in today’s interview in the band’s rehearsal space, is as bold as it is refreshing. No traditional guitar parts. No familiar sounds. No solos. Sometimes not even a tuner. “We’re trying to avoid sounding like a conventional guitar band,” says Bowen. “We’re always like, ‘Well, where can a guitar go that isn’t expected?’”

What did you hope to achieve with Tangk, relative to past albums?

Mark Bowen: “We laid some groundwork on Crawler, in that we were taking a more experimental approach. So the goal on Tangk was to push that further. I felt like I had reached the limitations of what a guitar band is. Our goal has always been to expand what guitars can do, rather than disregard them completely. Because I think it’s important that we do play guitar, especially on stage, and we wanted to create an environment where we can still work with those violent, dark tones, but they’ve got a new background. 

“Within that, I wanted to push the harmonic content. There’s more complexity to the chords and sounds. More chordal evolution, even throughout a song. Joe started to sing on the last album and we were hyped about it. 

“But one of the shortfalls of the type of music we’ve created before is that if you start singing melodically, for us, it turns cringey. So this album was about creating a supportive melodic environment for Joe to sing on. Because the music always comes first.”

You use textures and layers really well in Idles. What role do effects play in your sound and what do you regard as the limitations and the freedoms?

Lee Kiernan: “I don’t think there are any limitations, really. This album has grown even further than the ones before because of exactly what Bowen was just talking about, which is the inspiration of harmonics and chordal changes. Or even voicings – that was a massive deal. 

“The work Bowen put in on piano, to take us away from the chords we’d been playing for years – he’d be there, trying new fingerings until a chord we’d play all the time was now so much more interesting. And the moment that happened was when we were able to explore effects. Even if it’s the kind of effect we’ve used a million times, it’s now got a whole new life in it.” 

Mark: “The other thing is the synchronicity between us. So there’s tension, when we’re complete opposites, guitar-wise. Or synergy, where we’re like one instrument and Lee plays something that adds the spike or point of interest to a chord that I’m playing. On this album, that’s been pushed as far as we’ve ever gone. 

“Lee could have come in and noodled on top [of my parts]. But the supportive role of his guitar on this album is the key thing that gels it all together and also reminds you what you’re listening to. It’s not some producer’s project, y’know? It’s not really about soundscaping, or sounds that are non-reproduceable unless you’ve got 40 fucking people on stage. It’s more like, ‘Oh shit, this is being created by a band.’”

There are some striking low-register sounds…

Mark: “This entire album, I play baritone. As a band, we’re obsessed with bass. Like, from the post-punk background, it’s the main instrument. Early doors, both me and Lee wanted to heighten the bass by being the antithesis of it. We were making spiky, jarring, abrasive sounds. The treble was all the way up on the amps. But as we progressed, I’m now the opposite. 

“There’s so much low-end information coming from my guitars, and that’s always what I’m seeking out. And then Lee is the spike and sparkle on top. But yeah, Tangk was almost entirely baritone, and it’s played on bass amps, or very high-wattage guitar amps that can cope with the headroom. And big 15-inch speakers, y’know? So it’s really about trying to cultivate that low-end.”

With Mark going lower, Lee, did you change your rig or settings to enhance that?

Lee: “No, I stayed relatively the same. But weirdly, I ended up using two new amps that hold bottom-end even better, which meant my frequency range was so much more impactful, but with a guitar. So I was using a Hiwatt and a 1970s Peavey Deuce. They’re both big valve boys that can take both high and low, so it meant I could float between where I needed to be. 

“I actually ended up going another octave down, even in my feedback, because it had to sit in a frequency bandwidth that occupied synths, baritone and then low subs as well.”

Most conventional guitar bands know exactly where the instruments will sit. Has it been a challenge learning to navigate different frequencies?

Mark: “I think it comes instinctively to us. Like, we don’t reference a lot of rock and guitar music when we’re writing and recording. And it’s not about ‘parts’ or what the instrument is doing; it’s more about creating space and working out what is the most important thing, then preserving the minimalist beauty of that. 

“Also, if you’re listening to something and the guitars are in a weird frequency bandwidth then suddenly you have an absolute fucking banger of a Dick Dale guitar part or something that comes in and blows your head off, it’s like, you’ve been waiting for that. 

“We’re not just pummelling people in the face all the time. We’ve learnt that delayed gratification is better. So we keep the [prominent guitar parts] back and then when it comes in, you’re like, ‘Holy shit!’ Our favourite for that is the middle eight of Gift Horse. You’re like, ‘Oh, there it is!’” 

Lee: “I remember, Bowen and I were sat in the studio, about two weeks into the sessions, going, ‘We haven’t played a single solo on this record. Well, maybe that’s just how this album goes…’”

Mark: “It’s not about ‘chops’ or solos. It’s more like, there’s these big guitar bits, like Lee’s guitar on Gift Horse, or the feedback bit on Hall & Oates, or the weird fucking Aphex Twin stuff on Grace. But even just the open-tuning chords that are ringing out on Grace. It’s just like, ‘Oh, that was big – sick!’”

There’s a memorable tremolo effect that accelerates and decelerates on Roy…

Mark: “That belongs to [producer] Nigel Godrich – it’s prohibitively expensive these days, but fuck me, it works. This album, for me, was really about being circumspect with the effects. A lot of the time, it’s really down to amp choice. So sometimes it’s a guitar going through an MS-20, or sometimes it’s just an amp at the highest possible volume it will go but playing reservedly on the actual instrument itself. 

“I think this was the first time I used volume knobs. A lot of times in the studio, we didn’t use tuners. What we’d do is tune to the track and the chord shape, because 440Hz across your chord can sound cheesy. But if you just subtly flatten or sharpen elements of that, it becomes more organic, natural and purposeful.”

Lee, you mentioned using physical amps. What is it that keeps you loyal to that traditional format, as opposed to modelling?

Lee: “I love real amps. I love the way a note feels. If you take that away from the speakers, it just starts feeling sterile to me. Like, I completely understand the usage of profiling, I think it’s incredible. But I have to think of them as two separate things. For me, modelling is something you can use as a fail-safe for touring. But when it comes to sound, recording, writing – it has to be amps.”

Mark: “I hate modelling, I think it’s wack. You can hear it right away. One of the big things on Tangk is that we recorded a lot of it to tape. Obviously, it goes into digital at points, so there’s going to be some form of dither or issues around the distortion and what occurs above the frequency range. But with an amp, and with tape, that is blunted because of the mechanics of it. And the distortion and what happens above the frequency range, that is taken care of.

“If you’re not aware of that with modelling and using DAWs, you can get into scenarios where you’ve created something great, but it fucks with your head and sounds horrible. You’re looking at the waveform on your EQ and it’s like, ‘There’s nothing horrible here.’ But it’s all the information that’s happening above that is really fucking with your head… and probably your dog!”

How did you approach capturing the guitar sound in the studio on Tangk?

Mark: “The unsung hero on this album is Mikko Gordon, the engineer. Just the mic’ing on the amps, the use of preamps, how he used that desk and his thought process. It was never, like, when you go back into the control room and you hear your guitar part and it’s been absorbed by everything else. 

“Mikko would sit and watch us dial stuff in, then he’d move the mic a millimetre and you’d just be like, ‘Holy shit.’ You’d go back to the control room and be like, ‘It sounds exactly like it did stood in front of my amp.’ There’s so much spill on this album, it’s wild. I don’t think other people’s guitars sound like this. We sound like Idles, and that’s great.”

Finally, what guitars were you using on the new album?

Mark: “For me, it was almost exclusively a Fender Stratocaster baritone custom. When we recorded Ultra Mono [2020] at the La Frette studio in France, Olivier [Bloch Lainé], the owner, brought me a Fender Bajo Sexto to play and that changed my world. I just started playing baritone all the time.

“I got Fender to make me one that fitted my Strat proclivities. And it’s stock pickups because they sound fucking great. So that’s my baritone when I want the twanginess of a guitar but playing those lower notes. 

“Then I’ve also got an EGC [Electrical Guitar Company] baritone that’s all-aluminium bodied, and that’s incredibly resonant with hotly wound pickups. It’s nigh-on uncontrollable on stage, fucking impossible to play! And the resonance that comes from the aluminium neck, especially with the big strings, and when you’re playing in a band that also has a bass guitar giving you lots of resonant frequency – it sings, and sometimes to your advantage. 

“Then I also used a Fender Player Mustang I got years ago, with a pickup from Creamery Pickups. I played a lot of bass, too. Nigel’s got this beautiful ’70s Mustang with flat-wound strings – and a hollow-bodied Höfner that’s broken and was mostly used for feedback because it couldn’t be used for anything else reliably.”

How about your setup, Lee?

Lee: “I only used four guitars. There was the pink Mustang I’ve toured with for years – again, it has a Creamery pickup. That was used for Hall & Oates, absolutely smashing it out. Most of the feedback is done with that Mustang because it just goes insane when you put it near an amp.

“I used my Jackson a few times because of the whammy; I’m obsessed with ’80s hair metal. The majority of the record was done on my 70th Anniversary Esquire. Again, it’s stock, but it’s perfect. That’s it. Very simple. We usually take 20 guitars each to the studio and always use the same ones.”

Mark: “I think it adds to the studio experience, having loads of guitars. I treat mine like shit, so they’re strewn all over the floor. It’s like having to clamber over a rock!”

Lee: “There’s that thing where you go, ‘What if we try this one?’ ‘Nah.’ ‘What if we try this one?’ ‘Nah.’ Then we just go back to the one we use every time…!” 

• Tangk is out now via Partisan Records.